hi lionel, i have admired your writing on facebook for some time and thought i would check in and see what you were writing. strongly felt and written words. this is a subject that greatly intrigues me, and i would like to add a few comments (lol). i have been looking at paragraph 3 (and here i apologize for gnat straining and camel consuming) and you say”:
“So for Abram to leave was to do more than relocate and miss Christmas meals, it was to separate himself from his fathers wealth, his families protection …”

i find it interesting that it was abe’s father, terah, who headed towards canaan, but stopped short. when abe did leave, he did anything but separate from his fathers house and wealth. he left with lot, the eldest son of the eldest son, and hence the entire birthright of terah’s house. he did not separate form his father’s wealth, in gen 12: 4-5 he sets off with slaves and a great deal of possessions.
the mighty and prosperous hittite dynasty must have been trading partners with the chaldeans, so, while his future is unsure, geographically he is heading towards what would appear to be a very fertile and perhaps prosperous region. and the future breeding stock of the bar-abrahams is fished from the gene pool of the bar-terahs’.
this quote, from a little further down, also concerned me: ” He attempts to give God a child instead of God giving him a child”. the conception of ishmael seems more like sarai’s impatience, than abe trying to deliver a child to God. i am curious to know how you developed this idea?
i have more thoughts on this, but my neighbor has fired up the snow blower right by my window, so my thoughts are even more scattered. i guess i must leave on this note: you said, ” Add to that he is taking along his wife for this journey only adds to the anxiety he must have felt.” i had quite a few things to say about that, but then suddenly was flooded with sympathy for both abram and yourself.
may God continue to bless you in a marvelous fashion.
chas.

mr. woods,
thank you for your response. in your response you say, “Actually his father was dead before he finally left so he actually would have had no problem leaving from that perspective.” this interests me greatly. just guessing and doing math from the info given in genesis, i learn that terah is 70 when his first child is born. we can guess, argue, or suppose that it was either abraham, haran or hahor. we could argue that they are triplets, or we can surmise that abe fathered children much later than this. but if abraham is the eldest (he is listed first in the genesis account-although this does not prove the age), and terah lived to be 205, this would make isaac 45 at the time of terah’s death, and it would make terah 145 at the time that abram left terah’s house.
now here is where it gets even more interesting, if nahor or haran is born first
and there is significant time between their births, this would place terah close to the age of abram when he is given the promise from YHVH. if this were the case, then it would be strange for abram to question his advanced ( although not quite middle) age for paternity, if his own father was still conceiving at that age himself. if abraham left his father’s house at his father’s death, when terah was 205, this would make him 130 at the time of abe’s birth.
now, nahor’s granddaughter rebekah was old enough to be married to isaac, so there is an extra generation between terah and rebekah. so nahor could be older, or he could have started early like his grandfather and greatgrandfather.
most (the midrash) put their money on haran as oldest, and have lot closer in age to abraham, as he has his own people and cattle, and has grown powerful enough to go out on his own before abram has ishmael at the age of 86. so if we harken to the info from the new testament, rather than genesis, that abe left after his father’s death, this makes terah 130 when abe is born, and lot could, in light of this math, be older than abe.

okay, here is where the fun and frustration begin. you rightfully point out: “. Abraham earlier in the text laughs at God and says his servant will inherit everything.” lets look at this. why would a servant inherit all, rather than his nephew lot? why would his house be left to a servant, and not a close relative?
i think you will laugh at this one. what if abram was legally forbidden from leaving his estate to lot? what legalities would bring this about, you might ask?
here is the leap; it is mentioned that lot’s father died before his father. is this incidental information? what if lot is the levirite son of abram? seed raised in his dead brother’s name? if this were the case, abe would be forbidden from leaving his estate to lot, complicating and convoluting the bloodline of haran. lot could legally and ethically be the son of haran, but still be the seed of abram at the same time.
the evidence seems to indicate that abe had seed, he produced more after sarah’s death. the indication is that the fertility problem was sarai’s, not abe’s. several times in the new testament the concept of levirite paternity is presented, usually in the seven brothers riddle. there is little in the entire bible that deals with a direct levirite situation as described by the law. there is the law, and no exact illustration of its application. several variations, judah, boaz, etc. but why no direct illustration. or is there? we are left enough evidence to make a credible case.

My hope in God is that he will also remember only the times when I was faithful and forget all the times when I was not.

i am with you there, joy. all praise to God. i only hope that just one time i am truly faithful, and that he remembers me.

Brethren, We may see ourselves as unfaithful but if we actually were unfaithful to the covenant sealed by the blood of Christ then God’s word has failed. Read carefully verse 27b. God’s word has not failed and his NC saints do maintain covenant faithfulness through the power of the Spirit in them. – Moe

Eze 36:26-27 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (27) And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Rom 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Rom 6:17-23 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, (18) and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. (19) I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. (20) For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. (21) But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. (22) But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. (23) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Amen Lionel.

God’s faithfulness and grace astounds me in light of Abrahams and our “performance”.

I know I am just repeating a theme, that others have already mentioned, but it gives me comfort that Abraham is counted righteous by believing God: Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:3,22, Galatians 3:6, James 2:23, despite a number of less than stellar events in his life including a bad habit of lying when afraid for his life and putting his wife in a terrible position and jeopardizing God’s plan for “the Messianic seed” (from a human viewpoint)- amazingly even after God pulled Abraham and his wife out of a very difficult situation of their own making Abraham passes this tendency to mislead and lie on to the promised son Isaac indicating that Isaac must have witnessed something in his father’s character, actions and the way Abraham responded to situations that led him to repeat Abrahams sinful weakness.

Thank God that despite my false starts, sinful tendencies and habits, God has been faithful to pull me out of bad situations of my own making and is still slowly conforming me into the image of His Son.

I do believe, I’m a believer, God help my unbelief!

Lionel,
Sure. Your response to Joy read; “I think there is someone who was faithful on your behalf and that sees you as faithful in spite of our unfaithfulness. I also think this is the premise of todays reading as Alan pointed out we are unfaithful to God’s moral standard but Jesus is forever faithful.”

My point is simply this. We are not unfaithful to God’s New Covenant. The promise of God in Ezekiel says otherwise. He does cause us to walk in his statutes and his new covenant saints are careful to obey his rules. Otherwise we/they are just as unfaithful to the New Covenant as Israel was under the Old.

Eze 36:26-27 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (27) And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Either God’s word is true or God is a liar. This is not to say there is no tension at play between the flesh and the spirit. That’s a given until we stand before Him in our resurrected bodies.

So yes! Jesus is faithful but never forget that through the action of the Holy Spirit of God His purchased people faithfully walk after Him. Perfectly no. Faithfully yes.

Keep up the good work!
Moe

Lionel,

As a brief reply allow me to lean heavily upon this quote from 1st John. Chew on it and digest it.

1Jn 1:5-10 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. (6) If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. (7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. (8) If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

If we contend we remain darkness then we have no fellowship with the brethren and God. This is not merely court declared justification. It is a relational reality. No changed life = no union with God. Listen to Mat 5:20;

“For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus is not speaking of a forensic righteosuness. The work of the Spirit in this age brings covenant faithfulness to God’s saints and it is not simply judicial.

In His love,
Moe

This was a very good post, Lionel. There were some truths here that I definitely needed to revisit and be confident in. Thanks

Lionel you said; “So what happens when my righteousness fails (I sin)? As a matter of fact in my own life there are things that I did not realize were sinful tendencies that I now realize are, is this qualitaive and progressive and a bit subjective. Or is this quantitative, absolute and objective?”

My brother that’s why we need to hear 1 John. We do sin but we do not sin habitually as we once did while we lived in darkness. John says if we do remain under the power of sin then we are not children of God. The force of John’s statement in his first epistle is mind blowing. The very reason he washes and cleanses us is because we are his children who walk in his light.

1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 


So my brother let’s wrestle with your line of thought.

Are you suggesting that you are filled with darkness while at the same time you have a right standing before God? It can’t be. We are children of light. Either we are in one realm or the other. We cannot have one foot in one realm and the other foot in the other. Either you serve the flesh or you serve Christ. You cannot be married to both at the same time. One or the other is your master. I cannot be a slave of sin and a slave to Christ. (Does this sound repetitive? (grin) That’s not to say we do not wander where we have no right to wander. As Bunyan kindly pointed out there is a path called by-path meadow. John’s point is that we are lying if we claim to be sinless. I may sin on occasion but I am still righteous.

My brother, The Joy of which John and the apostolic writers speak, springs from the knowledge that you are no longer under law but are now under grace. You cannot be under the authority of both at the same time. Either you live your life under the Law covenant or you live your life under the Spirit covenant (2 Cor 3).

Much of what is taught by Covenant Theology attempts to bring God’s saints back under the Law yet we know from God’s word that Law could never help a sinner nor can it be of help to his saints. All it can do is demand.

As a preacher I am either a minister of the covenant engraved upon tablets of stone or I am a minister of the covenant of the Spirit engraved upon the heart. Praise God for deliverance from the law that condemned us! You sound as if you remain a condemned man.

Law could never do needy sinners and needy saints an ounce of God except to deepen their condemnation and increase their sense of helplessness. Thankfully his saints know his liberating power! As Paul says in his opening words to Romans 8; “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. (3) For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, (4) in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” Now ain’t that something!

So Lionel you can fret over your remaining sin all you want but don’t you think it is time you surrender yourself to the liberating Spirit of Christ who you say is in you?

Joy sprung, if you indeed possess it, because God is in you and if God is in you sin will not be your master ever again. It is no longer our master. By and through the presence of his indwelling Spirit he has once and for all time set you apart for himself.

Without his indwelling presence you have no justification nor do you have no sanctification. To sum this up we will say it this way; Christ is our Righteousness. Christ brings to Abraham and his children of faith the much longed for right standing before their heavenly Father. Paul has said in Gal 3:3 “Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?” Why did Paul ask that question? Because there is nothing in you or me that adds one measure to standing in God.

Now that we are saved by the blood of Christ do we work to keep this gift? I think not. Paul says in Gal 3:12-14 “But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” (13) Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us–for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”– (14) so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.”

Note how Abraham longed for the blessing (righteousness/justification/sanctification before God) and how that blessing is fulfilled by the giving of the promised Spirit through faith.

I pray that in my haste I haven’t communicated muddied words.

Grace!
Moe

Lionel, Thank you and thank you for the site approval. It’s a labor of love. When you ever get on to Skype give me a ring.

the name in my email address serves as my ID